In recent days, there have been small rumors the Oakland Athletics having interest in Pirates 3rd Baseman Andy LaRoche. Of all the trades and trade rumors that have been surrounding the Pirates for the last year, none of them have had LaRoche's name in them. This was kind of unexpected, but the possibilities are exciting.
The Pirates were never looking for a trade for LaRoche, so the only way they would make one is if they were extremely happy with the return. Earlier today, The San Francisco Chronicle reported that the Pirates demands for LaRoche were too high, not surprising news to hear. The Pirates allegedly were asking for minor league pitching prospect Gio Gonzalez and young outfielder Ryan Sweeney. There is little doubt that the Athletics would be foolish to make that trade.
When I think about it, I am intrigued with the possibility of bringing in a top pitching prospect for Andy LaRoche. LaRoche is a good young player, but his upside is limited in Pittsburgh. Pedro Alvarez, our top prospect, is expected to make his big league debut in Pittsburgh this year, and that debut will be at 3rd base. There have been thoughts of moving LaRoche to second base, which could work, although he wouldn't be able to get much playing time there this year with Akinori Iwamura on the team.
This leads me to believing that Andy LaRoche has far more value in and a far better chance at being an every day major league third baseman in Oakland than he does in Pittsburgh. If the Pirates were to lose him, it really would not hurt us that much. Also, the Pirates have a much bigger need for young starting pitching than a young third baseman. Therefore, I think the Pirates should lower their demands for LaRoche and make the trade. Bringing in a strong AA or AAA level starter with big upside could help the organization greatly.
Here's Oakland's top 20 prospects, according to minorleagueball.com.
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10 comments:
Its Zemba once again,
I know as much as you don't want to believe it, unless the pirates dish out another 20-40 mil, are hopes of being good are slim to none. I was watching sportsnation the other day and they were comparing money to team success. The correlation was that the higher paying owners esp in the free agent market will succeede
Over the last four or five year, the pirate's spent 81 million dollars, lowest in the league by over 30 million to the Nats. Pretty much in order by record, the lowest paying teams were lowest in team record. Not that it matters, top echelon teams were spending upwards of 2 billion in this time.
As much as I love the pirates from hometown support, I have to be a hater until they start dishing out the green. What they don't realize is Yes, young players and prospects can develop such as a Jay Bay, but normally they are complimentary players who go along with that big name Pujols or A-rod. If a guy like you mentioned in the AA range, can come up to a team like that and struggle because you can get him experience and have all the guys to win games. But when you put him into a pirates lineup, his flaws are amplified greatly, and performance would rely heavily to the teams success.
All in all, I know you will have some ridiculous rebuttal to this little argument, but I really really hope they will put a little more money up, just get one big name guy to put in the four hole so we can have something to work around. McCutchen isn't enough and he doesn't come around in the minors every single year. I don't want to hate on the pirates either, but on this rate, a few more losing seasons and you never know, we might even lose the franchise to another city
Also, in the second paragraph that's the money they spend in the free agency market, it was mentioned in paragraph one, but I wanted to be clear
Sadly enough of the Pirates don't have the money to compete in free agency. It would be foolish of us to put all our eggs in one basket to try to sign big name free agents, we just don't have the market to do so.
However, it is possible for small-market teams to compete, it just takes a lot better management. The Rays of last year are an excellent example, they had a system loaded with young talent that all came up into the majors at once and played great together, and they still had one of the lowest payrolls in the game.
This could be how the Pirates end up in a year or two, they have done a great job at getting talent into the minor league teams and structuring the finances correctly to keep hold of the players they need to. They aren't going to be a powerhouse any time soon, but they have the talent to compete soon.
Zemba
I don't know man, your really being super optimistic here. I don't want to sound like a stupid hater, but they have 17 straight losing seasons.
Now that I'm thinking about it that would mean there first losing season would be in 93'. or 92' something like that when clinton started office. This would happen to be the year that the first major tax increase took into effect. This is what started this drastic change in economy. Money, money, money.
Yes the rays, have been an acception, this isn't your everyday occurance. I've been doing my research, here's what i've come up with.
Ever since the 94-95 strike, which probably had something to do with the major tax increase of 93, there have been 15 world series champs. Of these 15 champs, 14 of them have been teams in the upper echelon of the payrolls(top 12 out of 30 teams). And of the 15 runners-up of the WS, 12 maybe 13 of them were in the top half of the payroll. The Exeptions were the indians in the late 90's who were 16th of 30 in payroll, Colorado in 07' (19th) and Tampa Bay 08' (29th).
According to the numbers, if a team wants to make a legit run to get to the world series then there percentages are very low, under 10 percent per 10 years. And the number gets even smaller if that teams wanted to win the WS.
If you compare our line up to any other teams, I see two main differences, big name payrolls and big name players.
It's not a game anymore, it's a business.
You check this way to much btw
Well it's hard to argue with that. There's no doubt the Pirates chances of being a consistent winning team are very low. However, that's how the game works and they have to do what they can with what they have. It's hard to put together a good team in these situations, but I think we're getting closet to having one. If the team keeps making good draft selections, scouting well, and being a force in the international market, there is definitely chances for them to put solid teams on the field every year.
Obviously I'm not a fan because they are a good team, I just love the game and I love my hometown Pirates, and I'll continue to do so despite the results.
and btw I get an e-mail every time someone comments...
Chinatahn
Hi Zemba,
Obviously, it's easier to win when you are able to have a higher payroll. I'm not disputing that.
But...it's not realistic for any team (high or low revenue) to build their first winning season in many years using free agent talent as the most valuable pieces.
Every single successful team that has been able to sustain success has as their base their own home grown players.
The Phillies were very bad and revenue sharing payees like the Pirates until they drafted well and their players like Rollins, Utley and Howard came up and started gelling as a team. Then attendance rose and they added spot free agents to complement those. The Phillies had a high payroll for their World Series teams, but that was because their cheap talent that they developed themselves became very good and worth more. As a whole, they were still worth much more than they were being paid.
Same with the Cardinals. Same with the Dodgers.
Even the Yankees did not get good until they started keeping their best prospects like Derek Jeter. Look at the rich clubs that have built almost entirely though free agency like the Cubs and Mets. They struggle to compete with other lower payroll clubs that do it right.
So, you should look at payroll less as the REASON these championship teams are successful and more like one RESULT of these teams being successful with their internal development decisions. Of course, another result is that they win.
For this reason, it is a mistake to think that by simply raising payroll, the Pirates could be successful.
The Pirates must develop a good team internally first, and if they can do that, then the resulting attendance and revenue rise will dictate how many of their good players they can keep around to allow them to sustain their success, just like the Phillies were able to, and like the Cardinals seem likely to.
Or - they might have to take the path of the Marlins, A's and Rays, where they continually cycle their impending free agents out and bring up new prospects that they obtained through previous vets for prospects trades.
Those 3 teams are the 3 remaining teams that have yet to build new stadiums that will allow revenue to be generated at the level needed to keep players. Since PNC is a great stadium, there's a good chance the Pirates can avoid having to do that.
Now...let me comment on the LaRoche situation.
First, there's not only no guarantee that Aki will be with the Pirates in 2011, but that is rather unlikely.
Secondly, the most important tenant in the FO's philosophy is to obtain high upside talent and test it in the fire of competition. For that reason, Aki is likely the fire that Huntington is lighting under Andy to bring out his best.
Thirdly, if and when the time comes for the Pirates to trade Andy, you want to wait for his upside to emerge if you believe it will. So far, it has not emerged fully and so likely you would be selling his stock on the way up. I believe there's going to be major upside there IF Andy can play 2B. Since there's a long history of 3Bs who can play 2B (Freddy and Aki being 2 of them), I think it's a good gamble to take for the Bucs.
Once we find out, then the Pirates can make that decision at that time.
Point taken. My question remains if LaRoche will get enough playing time this year to get significantly closer to his ceiling. The possibility of trading Iwamura at the deadline is there, which could give Andy the opportunity to prove himself at 2nd, and he would be starting close to the full season because Alvarez probably won't be up earlier than July anyway, so that could definitely work for everyone. However if they keep Iwamura all season, then Andy will spend most of his time on the bench, which could end up setting him back in the long run.
I think it's going to come down to who is performing and how.
Andy just has a higher ceiling and profiles as a more dangerous hitter than Aki.
If Andy is hitting .290/.350/.500, there's a good chance he's going to be in the lineup instead of Aki, because Aki's SLG is going to be lower.
If Aki is playing instead of Andy, it's because Andy isn't playing well.
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